Professionelle members were recently invited to
attend two special events being run by The University of Auckland
to celebrate two Distinguished Alumna award winners for 2008.
The two women awarded this honour were Lynette Stewart and The
Hon Justice Lowell Goddard. We both felt that these women had so
much to offer to our readers that we should attend their speeches
and also seek to interview them for you all.
I had the great fortune to hear Justice Goddard's speech and to
spend an hour interviewing her the following day.
Some Background
Justice Lowell Goddard is a highly respected member of the New
Zealand judiciary. Not only has she has been at the forefront of
criminal law and procedure in this country for a number of years,
she is also the first woman of Maori descent to have been appointed
to the New Zealand High Court bench. Justice Goddard is now the
first New Zealand woman to hold the position of Chair of the
Independent Police Conduct Authority (formerly known as the Police
Complaints Authority).
Obviously, this is a woman who's achieved greatly. She graduated
from law school in 1974, and very early on practised on her own as
a barrister. In 1988, she and Sian Elias (now a Dame, and New
Zealand's Chief Justice) were the first two women to be appointed
Queen's Counsel in this country. In 1992, Justice Goddard was
appointed deputy Solicitor General and effectively acted as the
head of the crown prosecution, while taking a hands-on approach and
appearing herself in many cases.
If I were to summarise in three words the key impressions that
Justice Goddard made on me they would be: passion, integrity and
humility.
A passion for humanity
As a young woman growing up in Israel, I had to withstand my
father's strong urgings that I become a lawyer. My brother is a
doctor, so a lawyer was all my father needed to make our
picture-perfect Jewish family…
I did think about law, very seriously. But I felt that I would
struggle with dealing with the ugly side of humanity day in and day
out and that it would turn me into a cynical person. Listening to
Justice Goddard's passionate speech, and watching her warm and
inclusive demeanour, I couldn't but help wonder how she'd managed
to deal with the underbelly of society for so many years while
remaining so passionate and caring. So I asked her, how had she
done it?
Her answer was that she's passionate about the law. She sees the
law as the fundamental underpinning of a civil society. In her
career she has seen the full spectrum of society, and has witnessed
the worst things that can happen. She acknowledges that it is very
stressful but she always comes back to the fact that it is the law
that underpins civilised behaviour and provides us with a framework
to keep the essential principles alive.
It is so refreshing, having met some very jaded and cynical
lawyers, to meet someone like Justice Goddard who believes that
lawyers can, and should, make a positive difference because the law
is the foundation on which civilised society is built.
Indeed, she says that passion - for whatever endeavour you hold
dear - is something you should never lose.
"You will only really excel if you have passion,
but passion has to be tempered by rationality and objectivity and
refined by one's life's learning. It needs to be honed."
Unreasoned passion, says Justice Goddard, is unhelpful and
aimless, but passion that is focused, goal oriented, reasoned and
tempered by objective thinking will achieve anything.
Thus, in her passion for law, Justice Goddard learnt to be
objective and become able to put aside her personal thoughts.
Becoming dispassionate does not mean becoming desensitised to
suffering - far from it. Put simply, she has taught herself to put
her personal feelings aside because as a judge she has to keep calm
and professional to ensure everyone receives a fair hearing.
Optimism As An Antidote
It turns out that the secret to Justice Goddard's capacity to
practise in the toughest legal environments while remaining humane
and positive is her optimistic outlook:
"Whilst you can be disappointed and horrified, one
learns to never be surprised by human beings. They can do utterly
deplorable things. But humans are amazing creatures and it is their
creativity and ability to achieve incredible things that redeems
them. This is probably made possible because of our passion and
capacity for extreme behaviour, good and bad. Civilising this
capacity and getting people to achieve their highest potential
through lawful means is my goal."
Research demonstrates that lawyers tend to be pessimists. Law is
one of the only professions where pessimists do well. This makes it
all the more inspiring that this woman, who's had to change into a
robe and gown in the male only facilities when no women's
facilities were available in the courts, can take such an upbeat
and optimistic view!
Curiosity about the world - The recipe for success
At Professionelle, we often ask our interviewee what he or she
believes makes the successful women they know successful. Justice
Goddard believes that successful women (and men) are those who have
open, enquiring minds and are motivated to follow through on their
curiosity. They want to be extended, in every aspect of their
lives, intellectually, socially and professionally.
If you have that, says the Judge, "you are naturally motivated
to find out about the world, you are genuinely motivated and you
will succeed."
Justice Goddard's curiosity about the world is abundantly
obvious throughout our interview. That curiosity mixed in with her
passion seems to be the recipe for still loving what she does after
all these years.
"I love the fact that in the type of law I
practise and have always practised, I engage with a large number
and a huge variety of people from all walks of life. It is a very
broadening experience and this is something that ought to teach
humility, realising that there are whole worlds out there beyond
your personal social niche."
Listening to Justice Lowell Goddard speak, it really brought
home to me how as a judge she is obliged to see the entire spectrum
of humanity and to listen to and experience things that the rest of
us would scarcely dare dream of. Her even-handedness, humility and
composure, are surely assets in her role of dispensing justice.
Best advice
It is an interesting experience asking people about the best
advice they've ever received. I have come to believe that the
answers tell you a lot about a person, in two key ways. First, the
content of the advice itself and second, the quantity - how many
pieces of good advice the person can think of. I'm sure you won't
be surprised to find out that Justice Lowell Goddard received a lot
of good advice in her career.
The Judge received her first piece of valuable advice very early
in her career. In fact, it was when she was admitted to the bar
with twenty other graduates. The presiding judge was Sir Justice
Maurice Casey who spoke to the newly-minted lawyers about the
importance of integrity in the practice of law. His words stayed
with the Judge who continues to advocate the importance of
integrity in the practice of law nowadays when she herself presides
over the bar admissions of law graduates.
Becoming self-aware is another one.
"It is incredibly important to be brutally honest
with yourself even though it can be very difficult…. Realising that
you can't do things for other people unless you are well acquainted
with yourself."
It is this self-awareness that has helped the Judge find ways to
relate to the full spectrum of humanity she's come across.
"There have been very few people throughout my career that I
have not been able to relate to in any way. These were the
paedophiles and the psychopaths. Usually I could relate in a
professional way to anyone, no matter what they'd done."
Throughout the interview I came to realise that it is this
self-awareness and humility that are key to understanding the role
of judges, who are tasked with adjudicating without being
judgmental. As Justice Goddard puts it, "It's not about you, you're
not there to be judgmental, it's about the people who are before
the Court, the weight of the evidence and where justice lies in the
end."
Doing the right thing, what you believe to be right, with
integrity and humility is how I'd describe Justice Lowell Goddard.
And she uses others' words, too, in this case those of the Reverend
Manu Augustus Bennett, Bishop of Aotearoa, who told her many years
ago, "You do what you think is right, no matter what others think.
You are not here to be popular."
On Family, Work-Life balance and "making it all work"
The Judge has three step children and one biological grown-up
daughter who is also a solicitor. I asked her how she had done it,
being a mum and accomplishing so much professionally. Her answer is
that she had a very hands-on mother who helped a lot with raising
her daughter. But of course, as we all know, women are very good at
juggling it all!
Justice Goddard is emphatic that family has to come first. She
is very supportive of women taking time out to be with their
families and structuring their careers so that they can do so on a
continuing basis. She is painfully aware that her generation of
women had a sense of making it 'just like the men'.
"We were awfully driven. I think women now have a
much more balanced and healthy view about life, about balancing
family, career, social and physical health."
The Judge realises that many professional women still feel
anxious about taking time out to 'just' be mums.
"I think that women shouldn't feel anxious, but
make the choices that reflect what's really in their heart. If it's
having children and a family, they shouldn't feel guilty and feel
like they ought to pursue their professional goals."
Family and children are the most important thing, says the
Judge. When women who she works with take maternity leave and say,
'I'll take the minimum', Justice Goddard always tells them to wait
until they have the baby because "until you have the baby you just
don't know. You don't know if the baby will be healthy and you
don't know how you will feel yourself." She advocates that women
who are about to have children should not overcommit
themselves.
Like John Palmer, Chairman of Air New Zealand, Justice Goddard
thinks that motherhood is as good as an MBA. The multi-tasking,
budgeting, organising, and accomplishing projects like the kitchen
renovations, are all excellent training for management. "When I see
my daughter and her three young children, how she manages to work
part time, to have a wonderfully active social life and romantic
marriage and she can do it! She just keeps going."
It is unsurprising that the Judge regards her own daughter to be
her best achievement by far. She doesn't think she had a lot to do
with it. "I don't deserve the credit, it's all her."
On Barriers
In her Distinguished Alumna speech, the Judge did not linger on
the barriers she faced. She is not the lingering type. Her reply to
my question on this topic was matter-of-fact,
"I've personally experienced barriers and I still
do."
At times, she finds that it's her contemporaries and even
younger men who are the worst, whereas many older men have been
supportive of her throughout her career. She says some
discrimination is due to the traditional attitude of 'another
bloody woman spoiling the fun' and some due to men feeling
threatened by powerful and smart women.
Men and women compete differently, she says. Men are more
overtly aggressive in the market place, whereas women tend to rely
on cleverness. Women have to make a stand about being included and
other women will support them. She doesn't believe you need to
compromise your feminine side to take a firm stand, "You just have
to make sure you've got a very good case and then just go for
it!"
Exclusionary behaviour, says the Judge, will survive as long as
the incumbents can get away with it. Joining clubs is important if
it's where things are happening. Women have started to create their
own networks and that's very powerful, but it's still important to
make a stand.
"Do it by being clever, by asking the
un-answerable question."
And she closes our interview by telling me the story about the
Wellington Club, whose members fiercely resisted admitting women, a
state of affairs that continued till 1992.
Sir Robin Cooke, Baron Cooke of Thorndon finally achieved the
seemingly impossible in the Annual General Meeting that year. He
simply asked if anyone could provide him with an intelligent and
rational argument as to why women should be excluded.
Funnily enough, no one could.
I really, really loved the article. Your questions enabled us to
see something of Justice Goddard's heart, passion and values. A
really inspirational piece. I loved the importance she placed on
being a mother and wife and still pursuing a career with
excellence.
I guess we are all looking for how to have a good work/life
balance and still stay sane. I loved that last story about the
Wellington Club. I have run a few functions there and didn't know
the history to how women finally got admitted. Anthony Robbins has
a really good section in one of his books on questions. How
important it is to ask the right questions. That often we are
limited by the types of questions we ask and that we need to raise
the bar, because what we focus on will direct our mind and our
actions. Go the unanswerable question.
I thought this interview is very inspirational and thoroughly in
keeping with the positive psychology approach.
© Professionelle Ltd 2008